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Author Topic: What's The Criteria For Getting Income Support Rather Than ESA Work Group?  (Read 18925 times)
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Rainbow
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« on: December 15, 2016, 11:41:57 AM »

I'm trying to get to grips with the whole benefits system because of my up coming ESA assessment.

I understand that if I don't get to stay in ESA Support Group that I can be put into ESA Work group, which means having to go to the job centre many times maybe training too. I would not be able to do that & would be sanctioned.

So I was looking at other benefits you can get & come across Income Support. This does not seem to have any hoops to jump through unlike ESA work group so would be better for me.

But what I can't find out is what makes people able to have income support over ESA work group? What makes the DWP put you in one or the other?

I know that it will be your opinions & won't hold you or the forum to it Wink
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agapanthus
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2016, 01:35:10 PM »

Hello Rainbow. I had thought that Income Support was being phased out, and in one sense it is, if you are in an area where Universal Credit can be claimed.

From what I can see online, although some people who are sick can claim it still (in non UC areas) it seems to be very specific groups, and I don't think they let the other groups of people claim it instead of ESA. This guide seems better than the Govt one and specifies the groups a bit more clearly
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Income-Support/Who-can-get-Income-Support

I really hope what you are fearing does not happen, but I can understand why you are asking the question. Even if someone is put into the Work Related Group, the DWP are supposed to take into account the limitations that person has. I know they are not always good at that, but there are ways to ensure that they do (appeals/letters to MPs etc). I do know that in the past that for some people their DWP WRAG discussions were permitted to be on the phone instead of Face to Face, but I don't know how that works now.

I cannot remember now what you get re PIP but all of that evidence is useful when ESA is being looked at (e.g. if you get a care component) as it's an indication of your needs.
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Rainbow
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 02:33:31 PM »

Thank You so much!

you found what I was struggling to find for ages!  thumbsup

Yes that seems a no for me then looking at the reasons why you can get it & even if you could it would be fazed out soon anyway.

I'm still on DLA Low care high mobility supposed to be for life HA! so I'm guessing the outcome of the ESA assessment will trigger off the PIP assessment & the Universal Credit is not in my area at the moment.

The phone call updating instead of attending sounds hopeful but I know this may not be the case for me
/if they are still doing it.

At least now I know what benefits I can claim & can't the other thing I can't find out is the level of savings you can have before you get any help with rent & council tax is it still 16.000? as always getting different answers on different sites  Huh?



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agapanthus
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2016, 11:08:58 PM »

With regard to help with Council Tax, Rainbow, each council now has different arrangements. some more generous than others. I think it's a scandal that anyone in such desperate circumstances should have to pay anything, but sadly this is the reality for now. My son, who lives in Hampshire does not have to pay anything at all, and I help someone in South Somerset who ends up paying nothing each year after my intervention, but as I said, they all have different schemes.

Here is a useful reckoner for Housing Benefit and it does point out on here that you get no help if your savings are over 16,000. From memory there is some kind of sliding scale used for savings between 6,000 and 16,000. I expect the councils do employ this also to some extent when they are calculating help with Council Tax as well.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/how_housing_benefit_is_calculated

If you are on high mobility rate then you should qualify for the Support Group for ESA as the first SG descriptor for mobility should cover you (re mobilising 50 metres) so hopefully all this will not be needed. If not then you must appeal. 

Looking back you have stated that in you first post about the ESA form when it turned up. I know that you are now worried about your DLA and believe that reassessment will also happen soon (they are reassessing everyone of course......) and it's true that the mobility on PIP is at stricter levels. However, the fact is that at present you DO qualify for that mobility for DLA and so that is additional evidence for your ESA as I see it. You need to be clear that you cannot MOBILISE even using aids, (ie wheelchair or whatever, as it's not just about walking...) due to exhaustion and that you certainly could not do it repeatedly, safely and reliably and point out what might happen if you did try to. Most people could not use a manual wheelchair as an aid as the physical effort of pushing the wheels would be too exhausting.
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satmanbasil
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 11:27:55 PM »

Hi

As Agapanthus has stated income support is being phased out for ESA the same as DLA for pips not so sure what's happening with universal credit think its still being phased in test areas.
I have been through both processes ESA was first got awarded wrag the first time but I made the job centre aware of my limited ability and reminded them they have "duty of care" over me and cannot
put me in any danger by pushing me and making my condition worst. on following ESA assessments I was placed in support group and have remained in the group since.

My DLA also was rejected the first year I applied but my next application I was awarded HR care & mobility then I got the dreaded letter to claim for PIP's which I did , I had the medical and two weeks
later received the letter saying I was on HR care and mobility and that it was for 10 years, so try not to worry just make sure you keep a record of all your appointments with HCP dealing with your illness
and obtain any letters you can get regarding your condition.  Have you for instants been seen by a CFS/ME consultant if not then ask your GP for a referral maybe google and see if your area health authority
has a clinic, I wasn't aware for a number of years about one in my area but when I did my GP who already diagnosed the condition referred me and they confirmed it and wrote a letter that I use in my evidence
to claim both benefits, all these things go along way to prove to the DWP you are managing your illness.
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Rainbow
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2016, 05:16:55 PM »

Thank You Both,

I've just looked it up & Peterborough is my nearest CFS/ME clinic which is 36 miles away 45 mins by car, but me nor my parents would be able to get there & back without feeling very tired & unwell.

I'm in a tight spot with the assessment centre too, its' in the middle of Cambridge which Mum & Dad said they will take me. Now this will involve being on the mobility scooter from my house to the car Dad taking it apart & putting it in the boot which is hard for him as he has asbestos lungs a chronic back problem & a weaker arm where he had cancer op this year. Then drive us there. When we get there you have to park the other side of the road & hope there is a spot left with a meter. Then get over the busy road into the job centre & in a lift to the first floor. In the letter it say;s if there is a fire there are so many steps if you know you can't get down these steps because the lifts won't be used then let them know. The trouble is if I tell them that & they say I can't have my assessment there then it will most probably be Peterborough which we can't get to. So we will just have to go & hope there is no emergency that the lifts are stopped for.

I will be on my mobility scooter in the assessment they will see me moving on this & the assessment can last for 60 mins which I know will cause me a heck of a lot of pain but there I will be so they could say I can move more than the stated amount I just feel screwed all round really.

Thanks for the links too think the best things going to go get the letter back then use my savings down to 6,000 then apply for everything
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agapanthus
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2016, 05:40:11 PM »

I cannot remember when your assessment is Rainbow, or how helpful your GP is likely to be, but you can ask your GP to message them to ask for a home assessment.

The practicalities of it sound daunting for you and your parents, and it does sound as if you didn't have them, then it would be impossible for you to get there. They don't always comply with the request, but it's worth asking the question.
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Rainbow
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2016, 06:18:36 PM »

Thanks,

it's Jan 14th on a Saturday afternoon. Is there a time limit for the GP contacting them? My GP wrote a great supporting letter for my form I sent in so I think she probably would. Who would she call the local job centre that the appointments at or where the letter came from which is Nottingham?

Thanks
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agapanthus
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2016, 06:32:56 PM »

Oh that's good news - helpful GP and plenty of time still for doing this. I don't know of a time limt for the GP asking this.

I think it would be the centre that sent the letter as it's not actually from the DWP is it? It's Maximus doing the asessments since ATOS stopped. It should say them on your paperwork I assume?  I know they used to say for the GP to fax the assessment centre but I don't know if Drs have faxes, so I am sure an email would be acceptable.
 
The email contact details for them are on this page https://www.chdauk.co.uk/contact-us
Make sure your GP quotes your full name and DOB and NI number would be good too.
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Rainbow
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2016, 06:42:49 PM »

Thank You,

It say's Health Assessment Advisory Service It does not say which company is doing it unless that is a company? The only other thing I can think of is a taxi but that would mean me in a wheelchair & the taxi driver pushing me from my door to the taxi which is  a couple of mins walk then depositing me in the job centre but I would not be able to move anywhere without someone coming to push me in/out of lift because both parents can't do it.

Oh blimey
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Rainbow
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2016, 06:44:13 PM »

Just clicked your link so it is them
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neptuno
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2016, 07:48:52 PM »

Can your GP fax the assessors a letter saying you need a home assessment as travelling to a centre would be detrimental to your health ? This seems to have most effect.
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Rainbow
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2016, 07:59:36 PM »

I can't see a fax number for them & I don't know if the Dr's have a fax machine but if they do I could if I knew their fax number

Did that make sense  huh
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Rainbow
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2016, 10:01:46 AM »

I just want to say Thank You to both of you for helping me.

After discussing it with my Mum & Dad we have decided to ask the GP to write or email them & tell them I need a home assessment. I have phoned my GP surgery today & my GP is in tomorrow & I am booked in fr a phone call from her after surgery in the morning. I will give her the web address of the page of contact details so she can do either. I will also tell her to put my full name date of birth & National Insurance number. That's if she agrees to do it Smiley x
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neptuno
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2016, 02:49:49 PM »

Good plan  Smiley
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agapanthus
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2016, 04:10:56 PM »

Yes, good plan, and good luck Rainbow, with that.  fingerscrossed
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Rainbow
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2016, 05:36:09 PM »

Thank you both I will let you know what the GP say's.

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Rainbow
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« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2016, 03:10:40 PM »

Well No Phone Call  huh

So I just phoned the surgery & yesterdays receptionist put me down for a phone call back after surgery on 17th of Jan  shocked

So I am down for a phone call after surgery tomorrow morning & she has said it's defo tomorrow morning on the system now

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agapanthus
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« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 03:33:15 PM »

Oh my goodness - glad you got that put right Rainbow.
Fingers crossed that the GP is helpful for you and that you are able to set up the home visit OK.  fingerscrossed
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Rainbow
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2016, 12:34:35 PM »

Good News

My GP said she will take them on  thumbsup

I explained that they wrote me back saying they want me to go for a health assessment in the middle of town & said I can't get there. She said of course not (at this point I could of just hugged her if I was not on the phone to her because I can't get to the surgery that's in my village let alone into town I think I would of).

So I said I've got a mobility scooter that I can't get in a taxi or car, I have a wheelchair that I can't move not can my family. I said if I booked a taxi he could push me from car into the job centre but not into the lift to the first floor & if there is a fire there is 20 odd steps I would need to use because the lift's would not be working which I can't do.

So I said GP's can write to them & explain why people can't get there & they sometimes grant home assessments.  She said do I send this to you? I said no to them I have the email & postal address she took them both. She said I will take them on is their any refference number for this I said no but they want my full name date of birth & NI number which I gave her.

I asked how much I owe her she laughed & said no it's not going to take me long call it a Christmas Present (OMG I Love Her Even More!) so we laughed & I said thank you a hundred times & said it's on Jan 14th I just have to then wait to hear from them if I get a home assessment or if I hear nothing I have to go & I have no idea how to. We wished each other & family a happy Christmas & her last words were let me know the outcome which I said I will.

Inside I feel like  1rij singing djparty It's a blooming shame my body can't!.

Forgive typo's I've little sight in my right eye today  38
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agapanthus
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2016, 01:47:03 PM »

I am so glad that you have such a decent helpful GP, Rainbow. If only they could all be like yours!

I think if it were me, if you have not heard anything by say, a week before the appointment, it would not do any harm then to get in contact with them yourself and find out the score. Belt and braces approach so to speak.

Hope you can try to put it out of your mind for Christmas at least.
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Rainbow
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2016, 04:36:11 PM »

Thank You,

I've had so many GP's who don't get it, they have no understanding of how ill we as "CFS/ME" sufferer's are. I at the age of 16 being over weight started to have bowel problems I was not listened to & at the age of 18 being 6.5 stones in weight finally had a locum GP who sent me to the gastro clinic where after investigations found I had Ulcerative Colitis I was well on the way to leave this life. After that it was hard to come back from to even go & sit in a GP's (before CFS) & trust what they say is correct & I have never trusted any GP since & probably never will.

I've had all shades of ignorance in GP's since then & this GP was there who I saw every now & then but was not my actual GP, but I think along the way she must of seen me so to speak because when I had lots of chronic illnesses I never gave up I always got over each flare up of what ever it was at the time & went back to work. That's until "CFS" arrived.

She said to me one day last year I had swollen legs still have & the Community nurse who came to give me my B12 injection I asked her & she said she would ask a GP to come & see me to be on the safe side. It turns out it's flibitus (SP?) & then she said to me I know you never say when your in pain you just carry on as much as you can. You never moan. She actually got me not the illnesses. She is a big blessing in my life & one I didn't know was there but now I do & I pray she carries on being a GP.

If it works then brilliant if it dose not & I have to go there then I've not lost anything.

I will do that aggy, thank you I can now put it aside knowing I've done all I can do for now.

Please keep everything crossed for me that I'm granted the home assessment

xxx
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agapanthus
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2016, 08:38:48 PM »

I totally 'get' the GP issue, and what a sad reflection on what is supposed to be a caring profession. My nephew's ulcerative colitis was also left initially until he had lost a huge amount of weight and was in a very bad way. Thankfully he's doing well now, many years on, but actually had a colostomy done as it was in such a bad state. He was about the same age as you were when it began.

I agree about the ignorance of GPs, and cannot believe how little they know of anything much! My own GP was very sceptical about ME/CFS in the early days and unsupportive, but in recent years has done as much as she can for me, especially in the realm of the thyroid (mine is underactive). She admits that she doesn't have any ideas for the ME/CFS but is always happy to refer me to whoever I suggest. If only there were people in the NHS who were worth bothering with.......

I think the spelling of what you had is phlebitis - I think my mother had that once. So glad that you had that visit from the nice GP, and fingers crossed that you will keep hold of her!
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 12:36:11 AM »

Quote

I agree about the ignorance of GPs, and cannot believe how little they know of anything much!


My neighbour who is 85 has been feeling poorly for a number of weeks with aches and pains.  His GP told him he had fibromyalgia and prescribed steroids. *facepalm*  Without any investigative procedures (including blood tests) I would diagnose old age combined with a damp winter.



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Rainbow
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2017, 01:06:29 PM »

I have news!

I built myself up & phoned them. I explained that my GP has written a letter & email stating why I can't attend a assessment centre & asking for a home visit one. He said nothings showing on my screen so this could mean that it's been passed onto the nearest centre that sent you the letter & gave me their phone number.

Thankfully this phone was picked up quickly as the first one took about 15 mins!

I explained again & she looked on my screen & said nothings showing & she has one more place to look so she comes back in about 5 mins & said yes they have those & she will send it off now. I said how long does it take because the assessments in 10 days time. She said it will take two weeks so she has put a stop to this Jan 14th appointment & I will hear from them in the next two weeks. I took her name Lowis in case they say why have I not attended the appointment.

So it's another two week wait now while she sends over the new info from Dr Baldwin & they discuss it & decide if I have to go to the job centre or they come to me.
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